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Community Association Matters


Apr 1, 2020

Ana Rivero: Hi, and welcome to community association matters. The podcast for condominium and homeowners associations. In South Florida. As you know, Ana Sanchez Rivero your host for the podcast. And I want to thank you for joining us today. As you know, we cover a lot of topics that affect condominiums and homeowners and most recently, the Covid 19 phenomena has occurred.

And obviously it's a gray situation that's affecting everyone in the world and it's having its impact on associations. So many of our clients have a lot of questions as to what to do and and what does it mean when we're going through this pandemic. We found through hurricanes, and I think most of us pretty much have a hurricane plan in place.

We know what to do, but this is very new to all of us, and I think we're just learning our way around. A feeling way around and how to deal with these situations. So I asked David Iglesias, yes. from Iglesia Las Group to join me today so that we can cover some of

So David, welcome to the show. How are you today?

David Iglesias: Good, how are you? Thank you, Anna.

Same thing. I'm working from home. I'm glad to be here, but not under these circumstances with this pandemic and everything else is going on.

Ana Rivero: Yeah, this is a truly is crazy, I think. I think all of us can say that none of us have lived through this and it's definitely an extraordinary time.

David Iglesias: definitely is.

It's, it is for community associations. I think it is for the law. I mean, it's changing every single day and we're trying to just work our way through it.

Ana Rivero: So, thank you for being here and I really appreciate that. And I want to start a little bit about, first of all, tell us about you. You've practiced condo law.

David Iglesias: I do practice condo law. I've been doing this almost 14 years. I represent over a hundred associations, whether a condo or HOA, and I think one co-op, but I'm, for the most part, it's condo and HOA work. And I used to work for a large law firms, so I'm familiar with. associations on the grand scale as well as on my own here for the last five years or so, doing this type of work.

Ana Rivero: Right. And I know that we worked together on a handful of communities, so, definitely look forward to continued growth for both of us.

David Iglesias: Yes.

Ana Rivero: So let's talk a little bit about coven. obviously we know that it's a, a virus. we know that, it spreads through contact. And, you know, it's, the projections are not looking very well and it looks like we're going to be in this for quite some time.

So we, you know, today is March 30th. this is probably going to continue, at least according to president Trump, a lockdown as far as businesses and non essential businesses working from home for at least another 30 days. Right.

David Iglesias: That's correct. I mean, from everything I've seen, and you know, our audience who's watching this today, they saw from the president, even the governor this morning who stated that it looks like it's going to be all the way through May 15th as to this so-called stay at home order.

I think he said this morning that it's going to be for Miami Dade, for Broward, for Palm beach County, and for Monroe County. So I mean, that's at least another 45 days from now. So yeah.

It is, it is considered an emergency. I think that for the last couple of weeks, lawyers been kind of going back and forth as to whether this is an emergency as it relates to associations. but, but yes, it's an emergency. It is an emergency.

Ana Rivero: What does that mean exactly for associations? Do they, do they have additional powers?

David Iglesias: actually, yes, associations have additional powers. and I guess when we say additional powers. I mean, it really means that some of these things like holding a board meeting, they can hold it, you know, within a shorter period of time than the 48 hours that's normally required. these emergency powers.

again, there was a question Mark about them for the last two weeks because the emergency powers you'll find in the condo statute. And the HOA statute really related to hurricanes and things like that. This is really, I don't think it was written specifically for pandemics, like lists, but, it's one of those things that, you know, it now applies.

And actually on Friday, the DBPR, the division of business and professional regulations issued an order specifically. I'm relating it to the Corona virus, these emergency powers and to this pandemic.

Ana Rivero: And what are those powers say exactly? What did they say in that order that they issued?

David Iglesias: So the issue as it relates to the order, basically the, the statute for both the condos and hos had a requirement, related to damage after a disaster.

So what the order did was it said, that section doesn't really have to apply now. and, and it further gave it authority as it relates to human health services and their role in all this. So these emergency powers will give the associations the right to again, hold a board meeting maybe first. I'm in a shorter period of time, the 48 hours, let's say they want to close the pool or having too many people there and they just want to close it.

Now they can post a notice and, and hold a quick board meeting in order to close the pool in an effort to, you know, keep the, as you stated, you know, the social distancing and other things like that.

Ana Rivero: So now that you bring that up, there was a, I think city of Miami mayor. Also, either he issued a decree or sent out an email or an order, two condominium associations.

Obviously I directed at the Brickell, but communities that are along the Brickle side of Miami and basically stated that they should shut down their common areas. Now, we had asked our associations. To shut down about two weeks ago when I think the County, I shouldn't order. Since we represent a lot of communities throughout Miami Dade County, some in Broward, different municipalities came in at different times, but as soon as Miami Dade issued one for the County.

We told our clients, you should shut down your gyms. You should shut down. the ballrooms or the meeting rooms. That's hold meetings during conferences. But we did have a few clients that gave us a bit of a pushback. They didn't want to close the pool down, for example, because they felt that, you know, kids are on a school and it spring break just passed for us here in Miami day.

And what impacts. Was that going to have in the community? For us it was a safety matter. So what do you tell those condominium associations? What? What is their rights under these orders to act well,

David Iglesias: the associations. Generally you want to be in these kinds of situations. You want to be as conservative as possible.

So if the city of Miami is issuing it to the Brickell, you know, condominiums and Miami Dade County has these orders out, I think you want to follow those. Even the communities that don't want to, they say, no, you know it's is, you know, we'll be careful. We'll have less than 10 people there. You still want to.

I would say close the pools because there's always a question about liability. I'm sure in the next couple of months, unfortunately there may be, you know, people who pass away from this and some of our communities, and if they can somehow link that to the pool or claim that somehow the association was involved, there's a potential for exposure liability, whether it's true or not, whether that even applies.

I think it's best for the community itself to go ahead and and close the pools. I mean for liability reasons, for safety reasons to avoid as many issues as possible. You're just, you're asking for trouble. I think if you leave these pool areas, open these gymnasiums open at this time. Now, if the association feels.

Now this is the best thing for the association. Leave it open then, you know, that may be their choice. There's something called the business judgment rule that allows the associations to make these decisions in the best interests of their community. But from everything I ski right now, I think it's best to close the polls.

Ana Rivero: Speaking of liability, how, how much exposure do associations have or individuals even can an individual then has Covid be held? Responsible is they don't, well, 19 for example. That's another question that board members are asking us.

David Iglesias: Yeah, that's, that's, that's something I think to some extent that is a new idea in the sense that, you know what, if like you said, somebody has Covid 19 they decided not to quarantine and they would, if they maliciously or purposely try to touch somebody else or you know, get close to somebody else and that person gets infected.

Is there a liability there? There may be liability and for the associations for that very reason, you want to make sure you close down these pool areas and that sort of thing. Now as to quarantining or somebody self quarantining, that's something that, the association doesn't really have the power to keep somebody in their house or their condominium.

That doesn't mean that the association shouldn't, you know, call the authorities if somebody's violating, you know, a quarantine order. Maybe they should. You know, call the CDC or call their local authorities as it relates to that. But the association itself doesn't necessarily have the power to, you know, keep somebody in their house.

Ana Rivero: Makes sense. Now, what if I have a resident that is sick in one of our communities and we just found out about it this morning, and what we did was we drew up a notice where we're advising the residents that someone is sick in the community that. To stay calm and we've, we had been already ramping up with our janitorial staff and the different janitorial companies that we work with, our cleaning of the common areas, obviously elevators and you know, stairwells, but the hand rails and so forth.

But obviously he can't prevent it. we can't use a, magical radar that tells us where we missed the spawn and where the Corona virus is. And so it's very challenging to say that this has been sanitized and there is no danger. So for this particular unit, what we did was we told the community there is somebody that is sick, so please take the additional precautions to protect yourself or doing what we can.

But you have to do it as well if we do the right thing.

David Iglesias: I think so. I think it's the best thing you can do. My understanding all as it relates to this. I think, if an individual tells you that they're sick and they want the community to know, you can put out their name. Otherwise, maybe you shouldn't put out their name for communities out there.

if you know someone's sick, you can just say, Hey, we know somebody is sick in the community. Like you said, Anna, please make sure that you know, you take care of yourselves and do what you're supposed to do. I mean, there's all kinds of HIPAA privacy laws as relates to illnesses and medical conditions.

So the association should be careful and they should contact their attorneys in regards to that. But it sounds like you guys did the right thing and, and just notifying the community general that somebody is sick, and taking the necessary precautions on your end.

Ana Rivero: Now, as far as I'm sticking with that question, at that point of liability, is this something that they could claim on their insurance if they, not just the liability aspect, but let's say that they have a loss. maintenance fees may not be coming in because of the financial impact that this is having on people under likelihood.

David Iglesias: There's, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of exceptions. There's a lot of, and these insurance policies and there, you know, there's exceptions for war for other things. This may be one of the things that there's an exception for, but that doesn't mean the association shouldn't attempt to, if, if, if it comes down to it and, and they feel that they need a fall insurance claim, that may be the way to go.

But generally, as it relates to assessments. I think the associations, I mean, if we're going to go down that road a little bit, if you don't mind, and I think the association should be, you know, careful and making sure they collect their assessments, being compassionate maybe as to late fees and other things, but they need to continue to collect the assessments. That's critical. That's the lifeblood of the association.

Ana Rivero: Yeah, absolutely. We've already received emails from homeowners wanting to know if we're going to waive them. And you know, we have to explain that unfortunately, and I think for the most part, most of the services that provide service to associations are considered essential businesses.

And so, I think the County has provided provisions for those candidates, for those companies to continue providing services like the plumbers. The electricians, repair men, poor men and so forth, even us are considered essential. So what we've expected to them is, unfortunately, we can't waive it because we're still paying for those services.

What we've, advised our clients is to, maybe this isn't a good time to take on new projects, so maybe we want to slow down any, you know, or not enter into any new projects for right now. And. If people have payment plan, if they need to, or maybe defer a maintenance fee if they're financially able to do so.

It's, it's a tough scenario and it's hard to, you know, give a response to homeowners that earn such tough times. What, what is your law firm doing to help maybe those that you have in collections for your communities?

David Iglesias: I mean the, the same, same sorts of things. I think, we're working with the associations to waive the late fees potentially if the client or not, if the homeowner asks for that or interest, things like that.

we're trying to give out payment plans maybe a little bit longer than we normally would for the pain plans. I think it's important that the associations communicate with their communities and just basically tell them that, you know, unfortunately as you stated on, you know, there's, there's bills to be paid on our end as well.

And important is where the security or just general maintenance to the association and management company. All those things are critical to the functioning of the association. So the association should continue to collect this assessments. And you know, I think communication is key in collections in general, whether it's the pandemic or otherwise, it's one the homeowners ignore us.

It's when the homeowners don't call the management company that they get into trouble. So the best thing is if you are in trouble as a homeowner in those kinds of situations, I would think is to go ahead and contact the management company and tell them what's going on. And gives the management company, you know, they can put a note on the file and then, you know, whatever, if they're going to waive late fees or if they're just going to put them on a pamphlet and they'll know to do that.

It's when they don't communicate that we have the biggest problems.

Ana Rivero: I, and I agree with you in that regard, it is definitely a difficult situation that we all find ourselves in and we have to be compassionate, but the association does have to pay for those services and it's hard. So let me jump, So another topic altogether, which is another, a lot of the common questions that we get.

as far as, what should associations do to protect their personnel? Do we, do we have to, buy protective gear for them? do we have to, just is there anything else that we need to do for our employees and do we need to continue paying them.  during this time if they become sick. I know that there's, some language or some legislation that was passed recently, providing employees with protection.

and, I'm not sure whether that applies to condos and HOAs.

David Iglesias: Right. I think that's really something specific that you have to take on a case by case basis. Because some communities may have one employee, some may have none, some may have 10 15 I, I, you know, it all depends. But that is something that is evolving right now, I think as to how to handle that with employees.

But in the end, if the association cannot afford to keep those people on staff, they may have to lay them off. And they may have to seek an employment and then come back when they're ready to hire them again as to protective gear. you know, again, I don't think there's a specific requirement, but if somebody is going to be, I'm thinking, you know, maybe security guard or somebody is going to be in contact and grabbing driver's licenses.

Maybe you don't give the driver's license. You can just. You know, tell what unit you are. You make modifications as to getting too close to somebody to avoid having that physical contact or maybe give them gloves, but, but in general, there's no requirement that they have protective gear.

Ana Rivero: And we talked a little bit about, you know, making those modifications for homeowners that are, you know, into some financial.

A problem because of this. How about the easing up of rules? How do you feel about that? What would be your recommendation? As, as an example, we had somebody, a board that, they have a rule that nothing can be in the hallways, no rugs, no personal items. And it's understandable that they cause tripping hazards.

They can be a problem. but we had a resident that left. For shoes in the hallway because there is, some, conversation out there in the media that you should leave your shoes outside because it can carry the virus into the property. So where do we set the line of sending that person a violation letter or talking to them and asking them to bring in their shoes versus what they perceive to be a real threat against their health?

At what point do we have to stop or do we not stop? Do we continue to enforce the rules as abnormal.

David Iglesias: Right? I mean, I, I think we do not stop. I think, you know, black and white. If the law says, you know, I mean, there's always a gray area with everything, but if the rules say you cannot leave anything outside, I don't think an exception should be made at this time under these circumstances.

There's nothing, I don't think proven that that's carrying in Corona virus or anything like that. But. Nonetheless, it's just as much a tripping hazard as you stated, as somebody could get infected. So it's almost like two wrongs don't make a right. If you put us, you know, leave those shoes out there and somebody gets hurt, then there's maybe as much liability for the association as if they bring their shoes in.

So maybe again, communication to the association, letting them know, you know, that this is a serious thing and maybe have some kind of a pad, you know, on the floor, inside the house. And. Cleaning off the shoes with alcohol or Lysol or some other in some other manner, but I don't think leaving the shoes out is going to help.

It's just going to create another liability.

Ana Rivero: And as far as parking rules and the interaction between, for example, security guards and residents, I mean, for example, us in our office. we close to the public. so people can only come to see us through an appointment. we're also working remotely from home because we're completely cloud based and we're able to do that.

So if somebody needs to come to our office, then we do have them make an appointment and come and see us. But. What about the guards that are out there in the community and the janitorial staff that are cleaning for the guards that interact on a one-on-one, and the enforcement of the rules in general, should we, maybe stop enforcing some parking, you know, guidelines, for example, the request for visitor parking or temporary parking, if they have one in, they need the.

the, the guard to hand out a pass that we stop or continue with that and maybe add in some provisions, like having them wear gloves and so forth.

David Iglesias: Right. I mean, I think that is, that may be a different circumstance where you're saying as to how the security protocol is as it relates to somebody coming into the property as to the guest passes, visitor passes, you know, if it can be passed along, you know, with a piece of paper that's put on the dashboard.

I guess we're not 100% sure about that. it, you know, it's, you're going to have to, I think associations are going to have to waste some of those things, but it may create, you know, it's not like leaving a shoe outside where somebody can trip over. We've already logged this car in as being in the community, so maybe it doesn't need to have that piece of paper on the dashboard, or maybe you don't have to have the security guard, you know, take the driver's license.

But, otherwise, yeah, they, I mean, implement whatever I think the association can in order to protect. It's membership and not crossing the line that that's the hard part.

Ana Rivero: Right. And again, jumping around because there's a lot of questions that pop into my head cause it's such a, you know, it's so different.

This is such a unique situation. We just never gone through that. so now let's skip a little bit more on the formalities that, that we encounter and going back to those emergency rules that you establish, or that you said have been into place. even association has an annual meeting. Should they cancel or postpone the annual meeting or, can we proceed and try to do it via teleconference? what do you think?

David Iglesias: I think we have to take it on a case by case basis. But you're right, this is something. I dunno, it has not been seen in what, a hundred years, maybe since the Spanish flu they said in 1917 1918. So really nobody or most that are not alive today I've ever seen or gone through anything like this.

as it relates to annual meetings, a lot of my clients are postponing their new meetings. it's just, if it's not necessary, I mean, I think you should. Look at each one. Okay. Is it not necessary? Did not enough? Let's say it's a condo. Did 900 people put their names in? So actually have an election then for sure.

You know, I would think a situation where you just postpone it cause it's really not going to change anything right now. if there's a way to do it by teleconference in the sense that maybe it's a small community, 20 units or something, and the association. Can have one person downstairs and everybody on zoom.

That may be a way to do it. The board members, as you know, and I don't have to be there in person, they can be on the phone or by video conference. That doesn't apply to the members necessarily. But if the members have the right to speak and, and to participate by video conference, that may be an option. So the association should consider that.

Ana Rivero:Yeah, we have an annual meeting tomorrow. There weren't, unfortunately, it's not an election. Not enough candidates signed up. So we decided to postpone the annual meeting, but we're going to proceed with the organizational meeting via teleconference. And so we put the access number and access code on the agenda that was posted.

So that way anybody who wishes to participate, is able to do so from their telephone number. I think it's just, you know, a sign of the times. Right. I think that that about covers it. Is there anything else that you wish to add that maybe we haven't discussed or covered to this topic.

David Iglesias: I think one of the things that came up for me is for some of my clients last week was in regards to, you know, this issue with people coming in from New York and New Jersey and Connecticut and all these areas where the governor had issued this 14 day self quarantine.

I think it relates to your earlier question. The associations may want to post something out there so everybody's aware of it. But, unfortunately, associations can't really control what somebody does. They may just want to, you know, reach out to the CDC or their local authorities if somebody is not abiding by that.

But that's something that came up last week. And I think just monitor the news and see what's going on on a daily basis. We all have to, for our families, for our communities. And just be mindful of what's going on around you.

Ana Rivero: You just raised a very important point that I did forget to ask, so I'm glad you made that comment.

With regards to visitors, I've had re, for example, we got a call from a friend who knows that we do property management and they know of somebody who lives in, I think it was Boca. At any rate, the, the lady was going to help her elderly parents. and so they went through the visitor lane of the security guard area of the condo.

And the guard told them that they were sorry, but they couldn't go in to the community because she was a guest. She was a visitor. and I was dumbfounded because up to now, I have not heard of any restrictions with. Visitors at all. I mean, and I thought, Oh my gosh, my mom is elderly. I go and I literally, for the first time in my life, go see my mom and I'll give her a kiss when I say hello, like, you know, I almost did the fist pump, you know, not that type of person, but I had to leave.

No, I bought supplies for her and I left it on her door. I was like literally knocked and walked and walked out and you know, just called her and said, I just want to make sure you got what I left you. And you know, she was so thankful. So, you know, we're all, I think that getting to this, but if I couldn't go visit her, how would she even.

You know, stay alive because she doesn't drive. So the one who does groceries for her is me. So I just thought of myself in that situation. And so can we prevent visitors from coming into associations.

David Iglesias: I think the answer that is easy. Yes and no. I mean, if we're talking about delivery person coming up to your door, maybe there's a way, especially for condo high rise, where they can leave it downstairs as it relates to someone like you who would be essential to your mother's survival and just, you know, being, you know, doing whatever she needs to do.

No, there's no way they can keep you from coming in and either can they keep other visitors that are there to help family members and things like that. Now when it comes again, maybe a personal trainer that's coming in, maybe that's not essential, or somebody that needs to remodel their kitchen or bathroom.

Maybe this is not the time and you can put some restrictions on that sort of thing, but can you restrict the refrigerator? Your refrigerator goes bad and need to have somebody come repair it. No, you can't restrict that. I think there's a line, and that's important. I'm glad you brought that up to the, I think it's important that the associations have some kind of.

Plan in place where they can talk to security, they can talk to the people at the gate or the door. So they understand. Cause maybe if you are going to have a personal trainer come, maybe they do wear a mask or something like that until they get to the person's, you know, room or, or unit. the same thing.

I mean there's certain exceptions. Process servers have the right to come, but then you can also try limit them as well. You know, with gloves and other things, but it generally, no, I know you cannot keep the essentials from entering, even if they're considered guests.

Ana Rivero: I, I thank you for your time. I think we've covered a lot of topics.

I hope this helps. a lot of the board and members and even residents, that get to see this through our Facebook page or through our website. we're just trying to get out as much information as we possibly can to our clients. And I appreciate your time and doing this. I'll definitely be putting a link with your contact info and we create a blog about this.

And so, we'll definitely put it on there. So then if anybody needs to reach you, they can. Do you want to give a quick mention of what your website is in your phone number in case anybody wants to call you right away?

David Iglesias: Thank you again, Anna, for having me here.  for this, webinar, my website is https://dilegalgroup.com/. So it's D as in David, Isen, India legal group.com. And my phone number is 9543625222 nine five four three six two five two, two two. Thank you, Anna.

Ana Rivero: And of course, allied property group has been serving communities since 2003 in South Florida. We're now also, open in the Fort Myers, Naples, and Southwest Florida area.

please give us a call at 305.232.1579 . If your management company is not giving you this basic information. we're here to help you and we're here to help you get through this process. which is so challenging for all of us. So thanks for tuning in and hopefully the next time we do one of these, this is all over and it was just a bad nightmare.

Have a good day. Everybody.